Kinda need some help/advice...

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Taurucis	Kinda need some help/advice...	Lead	[-]
Posts: 3 (01/15/2009 09:05:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None I've got a plot bunny rampaging through my head and I really want to grow it into a fic, but I dunno if I'll get flamed to the other end of the universe and back for writing it. It's an eccentric take on the "someone gets pulled into the Transformers world" thing... basically, without the Suefic and without the cliche. I've already got a semi-decent, plausible way for the character to switch dimentions (Wheeljack blows something up) and the two OCs that I have in mind for the fic don't seem like Mary-Sues... It's not the typical "dimension walker always gets hurt/captured and needs to be saved and rescuied all the time, always finds true love and always saves the day in the end" stuff. It's more of a mystery kind of thing, and if I decide to put in any romance, I'll pair the OCs together. A couple people I spoke to say that it's a good idea, but I'm kind of worried... I've already had to put up with one anonymous flamer-stalker in the past. Maybe I'm just being my worrysome indecisive self, but I dunno... Do any of you more experienced writers have any advice?
Wyntir Rose		#1	[-]
Posts: 1225 (01/15/2009 10:14:10) What? Wait a minute! Where are we going? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is going to sound callous, but the only advice I can offer is to grow a thicker skin. Unfortunately with plots like that you are going to get flames and bad reviews. It seems that a good number of readers are of the belief that Original Characters=Mary Sues and that Dimension Crawling automatically means the fic will be bad fic. If you believe that you have a good plot and characters then write away and please post it! Just be prepared for the occasional flame or harsh constructive criticism. And good luck with the writing --- A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. -- Herm Albright A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water. -- Eleanor Roosevelt wyntir-rose.livejournal.com/ \| wyntir-rose.deviantart.com/ \| www.fanfiction.net/u/480892/
Taurucis		#2	[-]
Posts: 4 (01/15/2009 11:04:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for your opinion - yeah, I know I'm a little on the sensitive side... it really depends on my mood, sometimes I can get all hurt about it and other times I can be a complete psychopath about it. I've been studying a lot of Dimension Crawling Suefics recently, and I've pinpointed exactly what makes them cliche. I plan on avoiding every single point that I've gathered.
Nightfire99201		#3	[-]
Posts: 362 (01/15/2009 12:39:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Write your fic, even if it is just for yourself just to get it out of your head. And if you feel the urge to share it with others, just start sharing it with online friends that you can trust. Trust me I know exactly where you're coming from. I was planning a Yu-Gi-Oh fic with an OC that had a valid reason to be in the story and I got flamed beyond belief because of the OC and this fic was just in the planning stage and I didn't write the fic yet. I can see being flamed for the fic because of the OC if I wrote it as a Mary Sue, but I didn't even write it yet and the OC was very subject to change. Stupid flamers. But from what I have experienced, TF fan are more open to well writen OCs than other fandoms that I have encountered. So if you write your OCs well and your fic well I can't see any problems. As for my next Yu-Gi-Oh fan fic with an OC in it, it will have a deliberate Mary Sue in it, but no one will even realalize it. The Mary Sue in that if will be a hyper-intelligent 6 x 6 x 6 inch black cube with weird uber-powers. I have this theory that a person can get away with writing a well written Mary Sue fic with no one realizing it if the Mary Sue is an object. Me and my 5 friends at LJ are in on the joke, because we can't stand May Sue bashers assuming every OC (good or bad) is an automatic Mary Sue and must be destroyed. And all of use agree if the Mary Sue is an object that the Mary Sue can get away with acting like a Mary Sue. So by the time the fic is finished (I'm planning on writing it in chapters by the way) and if any Mary Sue basher hasn't realized that the cube was a Mary Sue then I will write as a PS, by the way the cube is a Mary Sue. And then lets us see the flames come in, because the ones who flame me in the end who say that they hate Mary Sues and argue that the cube wasn't will end up feeling like an ass. And that is the whole idea. Crazy I know, but it will prove a point. No if any Mary Sue basher realizes that the cube is a Mary Sue before the fic is done will get a thank you from me and a virtual cookie for being smart enough to figure it out. Because I think most of the Mary Sue bashers out there on the net are flat out sheep going along with the herd. So yeah, write your story, because you have my full support. HUGS ^_^
Taurucis		#4	[-]
Posts: 5 (01/15/2009 13:28:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ok, I think I should give it a try. I have a very rough sketch of the first chapter, which I need to flesh out... How can I tell if my OCs are Mary-Sue or not? I've tried several litmus tests, but they don't really work well with Transformers characters.
Wyntir Rose		#5	[-]
Posts: 1227 (01/15/2009 14:08:48) What? Wait a minute! Where are we going? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for your opinion - yeah, I know I'm a little on the sensitive side... it really depends on my mood, sometimes I can get all hurt about it and other times I can be a complete psychopath about it. Nothing wrong with being sensitive. The critics are harsh and often hurtful and it gets way to easy to second guess yourself into not writing. I've got an all OC fic going write now that I almost didn't do because I was so worried about them being called Mary Sues. How can I tell if my OCs are Mary-Sue or not? I've tried several litmus tests, but they don't really work well with Transformers characters. Personally, I think that the litmus tests tend to lead us to Anti-Sues, which are just as bad as the Sues. I would suggest that there's nothing wrong with having a few special things about your characters. Every character needs something special about them - be it the ability to grasp the Cybertronian language or the balls to stand up to Starscream. The only time this becomes a problem is when they become too good. I think that since you've read all those badfics in preparation you should be able to notice if your character is getting suish. And when in doubt, the Beta-reader is your friend. Ask around here. I'm sure that folks will be happy to help. --- A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. -- Herm Albright A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water. -- Eleanor Roosevelt wyntir-rose.livejournal.com/ \| wyntir-rose.deviantart.com/ \| www.fanfiction.net/u/480892/
Taurucis		#6	[-]
Posts: 6 (01/15/2009 14:24:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I like the second quote in your sig, Wyntir Rose. =P I've always been kind of hesitant to ask for help on things. Call it ingrained behavior, I guess... Well, thanks for the help folks :3 I think I'm going to start hammering out the plot bunny into something readable. If anyone wants to read it, I'll probably post it on FF.net...
Wayward Martian		#7	[-]
Posts: 12450 (01/16/2009 00:00:48) We'll always have Kalis! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	How can I tell if my OCs are Mary-Sue or not? The most basic litmus test ever: - If your character is in the room, is she always the centre of attention? - If your character is not in the room, is she the topic of conversation? - Does canon change to fit your character? - Is, in fact, your character the entire plot? There are exceptions. If your character is a Transformer whose alt-mode is, say, a singing novelty Christmas tree, she's going to be the centre of attention whether she wants it or not. I am also curious as to your pinpointed cliches. And, yeah, thicken your skin but not to the point where you're just a big lump of rock. Not everyone's going to like your story, even if it's the best one ever ( and, well, it won't be, because you are not Theodore Sturgeon. ) Such is life. Not every less-than-positive review is a terrible flame written by a jealous illiterate who wants to personally ruin your life. Cannibal Predacon is cannibal.
Taurucis		#8	[-]
Posts: 7 (01/16/2009 08:53:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Wayward Martian wrote: - If your character is in the room, is she always the centre of attention? - If your character is not in the room, is she the topic of conversation? - Does canon change to fit your character? - Is, in fact, your character the entire plot? I am also curious as to your pinpointed cliches. Well, the way I was going to write it.. the perspectives would change a lot, but always to "hide" what another character is thinking or feeling. Occasionally, but only when necessary - like when someone is asking questions she is not meant to hear, like "What are we going to do with her?" Not really. She's not the entire plot, but she does play a role in it. (heck.. all the major canon chars are going to play a role in the plot...XD) There's probably going to be multiple plots, all intertwined. Ok, uh. Pinpointed cliches about dimension hopping... Here's a few I've noticed... let's see... 1) Often the Dimension Crawler gets turned into a Transformer somewhere in the plot. However she knows exactly what to do, she usually makes the switch effortlessly. 2) The Dimension Crawler is usually accepted as something normal. Realistically, that wouldn't be so... After all "I fell into my computer and arrived in your world" doesn't sound like a very good reason. It makes you sound crazy. 3) Most of the canon chars are attracted to the Dimension Crawler in one or more ways, such as romantically or friendship or rivalry. 4) The Dimension Crawler usually has special powers that are either overpowered or hard to believe. 5) The Dimension Crawler usually has a habit of being captured by the other side and getting rescued by the canon char who will wind up pairing with the OC in the end. 6) The Dimension Crawler usually has an angsty past, I think the most common one being "The world hates me and I want to run away" 7) More often than not, the Dimension Crawler is usually the center of every battle. The Dimension Crawler's family/friends/teachers in the real world never notice her absence. 9) The Dimension Crawler is either the "peppy, cute, lovestruck damsel in distress" or the "rebellious, emo, I-can-take-everyone-down loner" type. 10) The Dimension Crawler either comes out of every battle unscathed, or winds up hurt every time so that her Prince Charming can save her. There's the top 10, in no particular order.
Wayward Martian		#9	[-]
Posts: 12451 (01/16/2009 13:28:14) We'll always have Kalis! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hm, most of those are generic cliches rather than specifically Fell Into Universe ones. And you missed 'DC instantly knows that she's in another universe, or figures it out on some very circumstantial evidence', if she doesn't arrive somewhere there are actual big robots being big robots. As to point (9), I've seen people try to be both at once. I've yet to see it work. Basically, the whole thing is moderation. A bit of, "We've got this person, what do we do with her?" is fine and makes sense. It's when it's every conversation is about her that it gets silly. Also: relating everything back to the character. The answer to, "When was the last time we fought the Decepticons at a power plant?" is "October 12th," not "Three weeks to the day after DC joined us." Negative as I sound, Cliche Idea Done Different is one of my favourite types of story. Cannibal Predacon is cannibal.
Taurucis		#10	[-]
Posts: 8 (01/16/2009 13:34:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There's so many things I want/need to ask, but I don't want to completely give away the plot... XD bangs head against wall Hrmm... do you know of any other fanfiction pitfalls that I should steer clear of? I have a nasty habit of spending so much effort fixing one thing, that I totally mess something else up.
Wayward Martian		#11	[-]
Posts: 12452 (01/16/2009 13:57:07) We'll always have Kalis! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yeah. Don't get hung up and drive yourself crazy on one thing. Get it done, ignore it for a week so you can pull back a bit, edit, wave it at a beta so you can get an outside perspective, fix what needs fixing. Cannibal Predacon is cannibal.
Taurucis		#12	[-]
Posts: 9 (01/16/2009 14:04:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A matter of aesthetics... in your opinion(s) how long should a first chapter be? I don't want to give away too much, but I don't want a really tiny prologue that turns people away...
Wayward Martian		#13	[-]
Posts: 12453 (01/16/2009 17:54:30) We'll always have Kalis! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My personal preference is to make chapters between eight and twelve pages, but it also depends on how the story needs to be broken up. If the story in total is only twenty or twenty-five pages, I might not chop it into chapters at all. I'd say no less than five pages. And, yeah, as a preference, I don't like tiny prologues ( 500 words or less ) unless there's also a chapter with some substance posted at the same time. Unless you've got the greatest hook in world, it's not enough to really draw in a reader, and tiny prologues have a habit of never being continued. Other people may think tiny prologues are the best thing ever. And while I can understand not wanting to give everything away immediately, don't take too long to get things going. Readers shouldn't have to wait eight chapters for things to start getting interesting. Cannibal Predacon is cannibal.
Taurucis		#14	[-]
Posts: 10 (01/16/2009 18:46:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I was going to have a somewhat substantial first chapter instead of putting up a prologue and a first chapter at the same time. Hmm... I don't seem to have any other questions or worries except for general paranoia... does this mean I'm ready to charge into writing?
Wayward Martian		#15	[-]
Posts: 12454 (01/16/2009 21:16:23) We'll always have Kalis! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you got the idea and the drive, that counts as ready. Get charging. Cannibal Predacon is cannibal.
Taurucis		#16	[-]
Posts: 11 (01/16/2009 21:39:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	snaps off a salute and charges headlong into writing (hehe, writing Prowl is fun... ) Thanks for the help everyone 8D

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